Jakob Michaelis has an online agency business. He shows how he creates and sells funnels to offline businesses or those who only have a website. He has 3 steps to helping his clients build their businesses. If you want to make money by selling funnels to businesses Jakob’s episode will give you the steps you need.
As an online agency business owner, Jakob talks about how he creates and sells funnels to businesses who are offline or only have a website. There are three steps he uses to help his clients build their business.
“I stay much more involved in a relationship with a client – their goals become my goals.”
Having a website for your business won’t make you money unless you are driving traffic to that website. This is where most business owners lack experience. Having someone who specializes in driving traffic to your business is crucial.
Speaker 1: 00:00 Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast, where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets, and how you can get those same results. Here is your host, Dave Woodward. Going
Speaker 2: 00:18 back, this is a fun experience here. I’ve had the opportunity about bringing on the show here. Jacob [inaudible]. Jacob, welcome the show. Hey, thanks dave. I’m super excited to be here and chatting with you today. This is a lot of fun for us. Ah, this is one of those experiences where I get so excited anytime. Click funnels basically build other people’s businesses and that’s the whole thing here. So Jacob owns a company called funnel flows. Some of you guys may have seen it out there where he basically has eight different platforms on ways that you can actually show the actual visual concept of what a funnel looks like and all this really came about because he’s trying to explain this to attorneys and trying to help people understand, yeah, I had no idea what a funnel is. So we’re going to go way back to like steps a, b, and c.
Speaker 2: 01:00 If you were to describe for someone what is a funnel, how do you describe a funnel? Yeah. So, so whatever I break down a funnel, um, you know, to me, if anything can be broken down into three key parts and, and most of the time clients, my clients at least always only looked at one piece of it and that might have been the website, but there’s really a whole other spectrum of how do you get people to that, that place to your online presence. But then also how do you get people to stay in your world and not just, you know, take off to the next thing and chase the next shiny object. So what I’ll do is I break it down into attracting and then converting and nurturing, and I can go into those in a little bit more detail. I know that most of the people here are going to be super familiar with it, but like let’s say on the attract stage, if you’re, if you have a message, you need an audience for that message.
Speaker 2: 01:51 And so if you’re, if you’re gonna, get out, get your message out to the right people, you’d go hang out where they’re at, and devising a strategy to then bring people to your world, to your space online. That’s one component of it, right? And so we do that with whether it’s social media ads or any kind of content marketing, Seo stuff, all the stuff that we use, most clients don’t ever consider that when they’re thinking about what they need for an online presence, that they’re not even considering traffic. It’s just build the thing that’s kind of in the middle. And so, um, then I started noticing that the thing lacked any sort of conversion message. It might just be almost brochure type or a brand awareness as a lot of people will use as a good fall back there, but one thing in a funnel concept as we know, you get into that convert stage and, and you want to make sure that your message isn’t falling on deaf ears, right?
Speaker 2: 02:43 So you want to make sure that once you’ve attracted the right kind of audience that you’re then able, you’re speaking their language into their pain points and you’re asking them to take action and just show some sort of interest. And so, you know, just like we do, it’s called the action if any kind of lead magnet to you can together. And that’s the kind of stuff that, that I think a lot of a lot of people that I’ve been talking to, they, they were missing a completely. And so, you know, it might be like contact us today and that’s the biggest effort they put into it, you know, and, and so it’s not, it’s not breaking it down even further. And then on the, on the back end of all that is the nurturing. So, I mean, there are stats out there all the time about, you know, the 10 percent of the salespeople with the most sales are the ones that follow up where 90 percent failed to follow up. And so in a funnel we want to make sure that we’re following up and so that’s all of your automation sequences and staying in, in their world. So taking that, that content, all that you can get into all the intricacies, but ultimately if you break it down into attract, convert, and then nurture, in my experience, any client can latch on to those three concepts and that’s, and that really helps almost, um, bridge that co, that conversation from understanding that they need more than what they might have in an online presence.
Speaker 3: 04:01 I love that. Don Russell was on the Webinar the other day and I heard one of things he was talking about was, as far as you know, picking that right niche, just one of the most important things is cannot buy traffic. Is there a place where I can actually get that traffic? And so for us, I was looking as far as where you’re making message as far as, you know, where are these people at, whether it’s facebook, it’s Linkedin, if you’re more [inaudible], maybe it’s a different social platforms or email lists or we’re even seeing a lot of things right now as far as direct mail or where you could see and things. A lot of the old CPA type of networks that we’re. And again, it could be billboards, I mean there are so many different places where people are, but you have to make sure that you get the smallest pole we possibly can to really dive in and make sure that it’s super focused, laser focus and energy.
Speaker 3: 04:44 Getting as many people as possible in that pool. So I love that idea. I think the other thing that you were talking about, Jake, I think is real important. And that’s on the back end as far as the nurturing last year, funnel hacking live, one of things we’ve talked about is for every dollar comes in the front end, we had 17 on the funnel follow-up funnels on the back end. And I think you’re right, whether it’s the sales guys is not following up or whoever it might be, the key there is you’ve got to have all the follow-up sequences in place. Absolutely. I know one thing, things you were talking about as far as funnel flows is software you created to make things more visual, easier to explain. Uh, you come from an agency background. So I understand as far as you and I were talking earlier, just this whole concept. I’m going charge, you know, 5,000 to $50,000 for this project and yet they don’t want to see it just in a sketchpad. So help people understand kind of what you created and why it works.
Speaker 2: 05:29 Yeah. So, so the, the way that it really started for me is once, once I started having these conversations with clients, either existing or new clients and they would come with this idea of on either website, which sounds so basic and you see even ads out there for other website builders that, that say you need a website when it’s so much more than that. Right? So, so I would go into these meetings knowing that I would have to change the conversation and, and what kept happening time and time again is the more uh, I got into this concept and started breaking all these pieces out. I would almost create confusion because it wasn’t what they asked for. So I’m trying to, you know, a bridge, this level of awareness over into, I know you think you need this but you really need much more and this is how it all fits together.
Speaker 2: 06:20 Right? So that was, that was sort of the frustration that I was having. And, and so at one particular meeting, like you had mentioned it, it was an attorney and this guy, when he would sit down with clients, he would actually, he had this massive whiteboard in his, in his conference room and he would, you know, do all these formulas like, well, if you have x number of dollars here, and he would draw these crazy things outright, like a math teacher or something. And so I figured this would be the perfect opportunity to, to map this whole thing out. And so I’m like going into the sequence about all the stuff that he needs to do, got the in here and then you’re going to offer this up sale and going to ask for this, schedule an appointment, this whole thing. I’m thinking that he’s going to get super pumped about it.
Speaker 2: 06:58 And then I’m looking back at him and he’s like the most confused person I’ve ever seen. You’re right, this isn’t his world. And I realize that looking back there were several of those meetings where I spent so much time trying to get the light bulb moment and it was, it wasn’t necessarily happening or it was very, very cautious like, well I trust you. So I think that this makes sense, but I’m not really sure. So after that meeting I started thinking about how can I change that conversation? Right? And, and I had this idea whenever I would build websites, there’s always a point for anyone that’s ever done Webdev. There’s a certain point where you would do build out a site map. And what I would do is almost a visual site map that would give clients a reference, like a bird’s eye view of how all these different pieces of the website, how it works together.
Speaker 2: 07:51 OK, well a website, just those parts and pieces don’t make the entire funnel up. And so I started building out something that would only focus on the elements around marketing funnels. And I took the concept and just, I changed, I took the sitemap idea, turn it into a flow chart, but I’ll put just enough detail in there were, instead of just saying this is an opt in box, I would just build a little, a little mini version of here’s the headline and there’s a little form here that you fill out. So it’s just, it’s really paired down to give just enough visual detail without being confusing and getting into all the technical jargon. And so I map out this whole, like this whole customer journey. And in most people might do that after they closed the deal, like people in our world, they might have these crazy, um, elaborate funnel maps built out.
Speaker 2: 08:41 But, but what I was doing differently was saying what’s the most basic concept that I’m trying to accomplish for the client that I can show them visually. And once I built that out and actually presented it to them and walk them through that journey, then all of a sudden they were understanding it. So at that point I knew that I was on to something that was able to really shift their thought into seeing it, like literally seeing how all those pieces together and why each part’s important. So that that’s really where we’re all that stem from.
Speaker 3: 09:15 I think that’s great. And I think everyone learns differently. Some people are real visual, some people are auditory and again, it’s a. we’ve always tried inside of click funnels to try and keep funnels as simple as possible. I know some of these things, we looked at become these massive maps that literally fill up on walls and you’re like, you know, you can’t test that and you can’t tweak that. It’s too far. It’s too big. Right? And so I’m really trying to keep funnels as small as possible, but at the same time I understand the visual aspect and that helps for sure. So I think it’s a cool idea.
Speaker 2: 09:42 Yep, absolutely. And that, and that’s kind of the big thing that, that I felt like, um, what I was even doing selfishly, but like you said, I would break down how to get into all these little nitpick thing. I’m rural, I have like a creative side and the technical side, but I would geek out on the technical stuff and I would really want to brag on all that, like how, how the automation was going to be this perfect symphony of things that are going to happen and they didn’t even have to worry about it, you know, but, but ultimately most of the time clients care about one thing and that’s making money and you know, getting more customers. So, so all of that extra talk was really becoming more of a distraction. And so having something like this visual, this detailed visual flow chart is, is really what helped me to, for one narrow, narrow my focus down into what’s important for them and also help them to just stay like they don’t have to necessarily worry about, well, what’s the perfect facebook campaign and the target audience or what?
Speaker 2: 10:40 How do we, how do we hit people up on a cold email sequence? Like that’s all at this stage, what the studies that I’m talking about, all of that. It’s way too complex. That’s way too complicated. So we’re just trying to show them this is where we’re going to find people, this is where your traffic’s going to come from. Once they get there, this is where we’re going to build down into that, building up the relationship and getting them to take action. And then depending on how they behave, we’re going to respond accordingly. And so, uh, you know, at the end of every funnel you’re hoping to find dollars options. And so as we’re walking through these steps, it starting to show them that what they were initially asking for wasn’t going to get the job done and I, I’ve, I’ve turned away work before because they would be focused on, they just just want this one thing and I say that one thing isn’t going to make you money and I can’t in good faith take your money.
Speaker 2: 11:34 Because I’ve been in those situations in the past, you know, 10 years ago, a website by itself would have been sufficient and people would charge insane amounts of money because you know, like, like a website was this mysterious thing, how do you program this stuff and what’s it all about? And so all of that, the barrier of entry has been pretty eliminated. So really for me, the, the, the, the, as far as an agency standing goes, the conversation has to turn more into not just the execution, but crafting that strategy and helping the client see that you care more about, you know, what their business goals are and not just delivering a product. Because if all they want is a beautiful website. There’s so many builders and templates out there. As an agency person, I can’t necessarily make a living off of something that you can get for so much, you know, less than what, than what I would be having to charge to pull that off. You know,
Speaker 3: 12:32 I think Jacob is, as a funnel builder person who’s running an agency, I think again, if, if all he wants a website, you need to walk away from that kind of stuff because they’re going to be unhappy, you’re going to be unhappy. You’re never gonna be able to satisfy them. They don’t want to spend as much. So when you’re looking at actually selling a funnel, what t give me a range as far as when you’re selling funnels, as an agency owner, what kind of price range? How do you, how do you price pricing funnel? How do you look at selling the funnel?
Speaker 2: 12:56 Yeah, so, so what I do, and again, you know, I’ve transitioned from the, the website world into this, this whole thing, and I’m not an expert by any means, but what, what works for me as far as bridging that gap is, is almost would prefer to build the ecosystem. I build the system for the client instead of them having to worry about all the, all the different parts and pieces and zaps and if this breaks down, how do you find customers support on a Saturday if all they really care about is making money, then if I can get them to hire me as the person that creates the system and keeps it running, then that’s really my end goal. So. So my current focus is really done for you systems and that would range anywhere from five to $10,000 would get you. I would say it would cover most scenarios.
Speaker 2: 13:51 Now of course there are situations where people are trying to go so much farther into like these elaborate product launches or their funnel starts. Like you said, it’s hard to growing so massive that you have to expand that concept. But I would say for almost eighty percent of the businesses out there today that as an agency you might have a conversation with, if you, if you price in that five to $10,000 range, for one, they’re not going to freak out about it. For two, you’re showing them a path to profitability and the and the Roi can actually come from that. Whereas in years past it could be, it could be 10, $20,000 for a website with no, no guarantee it’s going to make a dollar, you know, and so you can build it. I say you could, you could, you could rapidly build one of these systems in that price range and you can make the client happy and you and you could give them a level of service that they’re going to be pleased with because for one, it’s so much above and beyond what they were either expecting or are used in the past where they, you know, every five years they find the new web guy because they’d lost the other guy, you know, or something.
Speaker 2: 14:57 They’ve never. They haven’t updated the blog that they wanted to launch. If you look back, it says in 2017, welcome to our new blog, you know, if that’s still the most recent posts on there because they were going to do it. So like giving it the attention that it deserves. You build the machine and then you take care of it and as long as that thing’s running, then the client says happy. It’s, you know, it’s making them money and it really, it really, um, almost a redefines what most businesses are, are even considering when it comes to what their online presence exist. You know, consists of when you’re selling a funnel, five, 10,000, but you also have a retainer on the back end of that as well. Yes, I do a continuity and I would say too, one thing that I’m in very, a very specific cases, you have to be careful on the continuity or the, the recurring model is, is the way I explain it is like a water bill.
Speaker 2: 15:53 So if this, if I build you something and you want water from it, like if you want money from it, then you’re going to have to pay to keep the bill, you know, to keep the lights on or keep the water flowing. And. But along with that, you know, most, um, again, going back to the website, I’m example, once the site’s built, usually there’s like a handshake and a good luck involved with it. But in this situation, you know, I, I stay much more involved in that relationship with a client because we’re looking at their goals, become my goals. Like I’m obsessing about hitting those numbers for them and they’ve not necessarily had that level of relationship before. So that monthly, that monthly retainer or monthly fee really just ensures that I’m constantly testing, paying attention to things. We’re looking at all that, all their metrics and saying if something drops, we have to have a plan, we can execute it in the next week, the next month.
Speaker 2: 16:43 What do we need to do to keep moving forward and pushing towards those numbers. And they’ll, I think a lot of businesses that don’t necessarily, maybe they’re at a point where, um, you know, they don’t have an in-house marketing team or something like that, you know, there’s so many smaller businesses that could use the expertise of a marketing agency, but they don’t have that big budget, you know, price to bring in. And so in this model you’re really able to, to help those guys out by taking care of the complexities of it and being that champion for them and coming out, coming in with all the, all the creative and stuff for them, but it not being this full blown marketing like agency type, you know, on the larger scale where you’re getting into more more, uh, complicated stuff. So. So in that sense, I think it’s a really good sweet spot.
Speaker 2: 17:34 Now there’s also the aspect of, of paid traffic. So there are agencies out there that only focused on say facebook ads, like their whole model. That’s all they pay attention to. So in that sense, there could be like a funnel inside that facebook management from off from facebook to a lead or something like that. You know, were purchased or what have you, but I would always say and just be wary of certain businesses, make sure you understand what their existing traffic based is before you discount paid traffic, so that sort of, um, almost a subset of an animal in and of itself that, that you want to make sure if they don’t have a lot of traffic, you want to make sure that they are aware that paid traffic is going to pretty much be required to really get moving fast because that’s the whole thing and we’re all about quick action and sometimes you can put money into something like paid traffic and get those quick actions that you need to help get the Roi back quicker.
Speaker 2: 18:36 And so and so really, um, I don’t do many projects unless they just have a massive following or you know, like a huge instagram account following hook on like that. And I say, here’s the strategy. Talk to your tribe and this is going to move. But if they’re trying to establish themselves, maybe build something than we always have to consider the paid traffic as well. Not a huge believer in the fact that you can’t pay for traffic, you don’t have a business. So yeah, absolutely. So on a continuity basis sounds you typically charge for continuity. Continuity to me can, it can range on the low end, about 1500 and then it kind of goes up from there. Just depending on, you know, especially if they get into the paid traffic. Once you get into ad spend and all that, it can get crazy if you’re doing webinars like a live webinar funnel, if you’re having to constantly keep up with some certain things there that can be a little hairy.
Speaker 2: 19:22 But on the low end here, just talking about basic three step lead capture, something along those lines of basic opt-in funnel, then obviously it would be on the lower end there because you might not be refreshing creative. Um, as much. It’s more a matter of tweaking the message, split testing, small things like is that is the follow-up sequence, you know, hitting or people actually taking an upsale. And, and what can we do to tweak that versus these big, um, big overhauls or like on a launch sequence. Having to do early bird special and you get into this and you have to do, you know, your joint venture things and bring those in. So that definitely, um, can range in price there. I would say for, for most people, most of the businesses that I work with that’s a, that’s a pretty comfortable spot for them to start with and they don’t really balk at it because, you know, we always are making that monthly investment back in multiples just by structuring it this way.
Speaker 2: 20:16 Great insights. Well Jake was getting close to wrapping things up, but anything else you wanna say? Any other tips? You know, I don’t think so. I think the biggest thing that I’ve learned, and I think I mentioned this to you, um, beforehand having, having click funnels for me, um, you know, all this content open as a, as a traditional agency, it really opened, broadened my horizons into the importance of marketing funnels. Now I would say along those lines that I’m. This whole concept of marketing funnels is just now getting into the mainstream where the quote unquote everyday business is starting to pay attention to or be somewhat aware of it, so it’s not just like, of course these have been around for years now, but it’s just now really hitting the masses instead of the movement that click funnels has going on and the way that that we’re able to really, really bring that to all, you know, all kinds of businesses of any size is hugely important and really all I’m trying to do is help other people.
Speaker 2: 21:12 Like if you’re selling funnels to other clients, to businesses, if you have an agency, really think about the message that you have and and understand how, what their level of awareness is may not be where they need to be, but know that you can. You can bridge that gap and and show them that path to profitability. They may just not be there yet, but it’s don’t, don’t discount them just because they don’t understand right now and that’s one thing that I’ve fallen into it first. If they don’t get it now, they never will, but really is a disservice, you know, like if you know you can help their business and you are supremely confident about it, you have to find a way to communicate that and that’s really, um, what I’ve been so passionate about and what I’ve been trying to create for myself and then also help other businesses to grow, um, by really changing that whole conversation around marketing funnels. Well, Jake, thanks so much for your time and before Dr. Real soon. Thanks again. Thanks. Today.
Speaker 4: 22:07 One of the things that means a ton to me is the first reviews that you guys lead on itunes. By going out to show, let me know how I’m doing. Just go to Itunes, click on the episode and read all the comments. I appreciate all the stars and everything everyone already left for me. Again, I really appreciate it and it’s my way of finding out how I’m doing so if you don’t mind, I’d really appreciate it. And I again, thank you so much for all you guys do. Have a great day.